The Curious Mind: Learning for Life

At Glenmede, we believe that thoughtful wealth management begins with understanding not just what our clients have, but what matters most to them. That’s why we’re pleased to explore conversations around the opportunities and challenges that shape our lives beyond the financial markets—from lifelong learning and healthy aging to cognitive health, caregiving, and the well-being of future generations. 

Glenmede sat down with MIT AgeLab researcher and co-author Luke Yoquinto to explore how curiosity, adaptability, and our capacity to learn can enrich our lives at every age. We hope this conversation inspires new ideas, thoughtful discussions with family and friends, and perhaps a different kind of conversation with your Glenmede advisor. Managing wealth is important but helping you make the most of your life is why we do it. 

 

Full Transcript

Greg Khost: Good afternoon, everyone, and thank you for joining us. My name is Greg Khost, and I’m the Regional Director for Glenmede in New York City and Northern New Jersey. At Glenmede, we spend a great deal of time thinking about the future, future markets, technology, longevity and the next generation of the families that we serve. We also think about the decisions that families make today that may shape their lives decades from now. But preparing for the future isn’t only about your investment portfolio. It’s also about our ability to continue learning and adapting as the world around us changes. And that’s why we thought today’s conversation would be particularly interesting.

Our guest, Luke Yoquinto of the MIT AgeLab is the co-author of the book Grasp: The Science Transforming How We Learn. Luke’s work explores A deceptively simple question. How do we actually learn, and can we get better at it throughout our lives? It’s a timely question. We’re all living longer. Many of us will have longer careers and more chapters in our lives than previous generations. And artificial intelligence is also changing how we work and how we access information and knowledge. We see this every day at Glenmede. Parents and grandparents are trying to prepare younger generations for a world that may look very different from the one in which we built our own careers. So today isn’t really a conversation about education. It’s a conversation about curiosity, adaptability, and remaining engaged with the world around us. And perhaps the question I’d encourage everyone to keep in mind during our conversation is just a very simple one. What should I learn next? Luke, thanks for joining us here today.

Let me jump into our first question then, which is kind of basic, but just what is learning and can we learn to be smarter? Can you talk about the work at MIT AgeLab and what answers that that your work might give us?

Luke Loquinto: Thank you so much for having me, Greg. So let me back up a little bit. I’m a researcher at the MIT AgeLab and I had the pleasure of writing this book called Grasp: The Science Transforming How We Learn with MIT’s Head of Open Learning. So I have a little bit of knowledge around older people and the world that’s coming for them and a little bit of knowledge around cognitive science of learning. And every now and then my two sides of my personality meet. So this is this is a good chance to talk to him about some of that stuff. So aging, intelligence, learning, we can tend to be a little fatalistic about these kind of things. I mean, 1 is this myth that intelligence is fixed at birth. Frankly, you can, you can actually improve your own intelligence through hard work and, and study and that kind of thing. 2 has to do with aging and aging and intelligence.

So let’s see the bad news first. There’s different ways to slice up intelligence. You’ve got fluid and you got your crystallized. Fluid is your ability to respond in new situations, crystallized is your ability to leverage all the stuff you already know and put that to work. So all right, bad news. Fluid peaks at age 20. So I’m well past it already. It’s in the rear-view mirror. It doesn’t matter as much as the combined fluid and crystallized as we especially as we get later into our careers and beyond the other bit of bad news, I hate to be the one who brings to you, your brain is shrinking. So starting around age 30 and accelerating at age 60, the brain literally starts to lose volume and mass.

The good news is you don’t need a physically growing brain to learn new things. What you need is something called neuroplasticity, which is the changes that happen inside the brain among the neurons. That’s what allows people to respond so well in in so many cases to stroke, for instance, is neural connections get rerouted and that’s what allows you to form new long-lasting memories, which is what we, you know what we call learning. If you were to smell a banana for the first time in your life, let’s say it happened a year ago, how did that how did the memory form right? And what happened was the molecules of the banana go up in your nose, and literally there’s neurons that connect from inside your nose up into your brain. They pass through a sheet of bone and go into the brain, and a assemblage of cells sort of lights up.

When that happens and that keeps happening, those connections will get stronger and stronger. But at the same time, you’re associating different things with this. With that smell, you’re associating the color yellow. With the smell, you’re associating the word banana with the smell, you’re associating the people you were with in that moment when you first smelled that banana. So that altogether that adds up to this thing that we call a memory that has all these different connections. And that memory will get accessed in two ways. One is if you smell another banana again through your senses. And the other is if you happen to think of a banana because you were thinking about yellow or thinking about the people you were with. You like, oh, I was with Greg. I smelled a banana for the first time when I was with Greg. That memory lights up. And so the formation of those memories involves not just chemical, but physical changes in the brain that happens at any age.

Khost: Thank you. And the phrase that you used with me last week was, it’s not a big brain contest. It’s a making connections contest that that made sense to me once you talked about crystallized memory.

Loquinto: That’s right. Making new memories is all about associating. It’s all about making those connections in the brain. And that’s a physical thing as well as a mental thing.

Khost: Thanks, Luke. I think that is a perfect segue into the second question that we had prepared, which is how do you keep your brain relevant for the 100 year life? And we discussed this a lot that people talk about living to 100 or even beyond. And you and I were talking about the tension of having a longer career, but also having accelerating technology at the same time. So how do you, how do you think about keeping your brain relevant for that extra-long 100 year life?

Loquinto: Yeah, no, it’s a fantastic question. More and more relevant every year as we as we get older in these longer careers become possible. So it’s important to think first of all, when as we continue learning over the course of our lives, it’s not like we’re filling up with a bucket, a bucket with water and it’s going to get full or something like that. It’s not like we’re filling up a hard drive with photos or something and the hard drive is going to fill up. Learning is more like building a tree of representations inside your brain. So that banana example where you build that memory of what a banana is with all the connections to it of yellow and the word and all that stuff, that’s just one tiny little bit of your tree that represents the world all around you and all of your experience. And as you get older, the tree gets bigger, right? So the problem is part of what your tree of knowledge or tree of experience does is that you have a relationship with technology and you have certain assumptions about how technology should work based on your past interactions with technology.

So, and the challenge is, and this is what is going to differentiate an older learner from a younger learner encountering new technology. Somebody who’s young encounters technology for the first time. They don’t have to relearn anything. Someone who’s older coming in, who’s maybe got some history with technology, they have to remodel their tree of knowledge in order to make the new technology fit on to it. That’s more effortful, right? And the value proposition isn’t always there.

BMW has a problem. We work with a lot of the automakers studying how older drivers work, operate in their cars. They have a problem, which is they’re introducing something called the iDrive system, which is one of the first commercially available screens in the car. It’s not a touch screen, it’s a screen where you operate, and you select different items on the screen using this sort of joystick shaped mouse like object, but it’s not a mouse and it’s not a joystick. It’s sort of in between. So unfortunately, older drivers hated this thing. And so one of the issues BMW had had coming to us, the AgeLab, we study drivers, we study older people. And they are like how do we make this so that older people can get behind this thing and older drivers in particular. And so we put a lot of people through the paces trying to understand how they’re thinking about this, this object that they’re dealing with in the car. And turns out the overwhelming take away from these older research participants was this thing feels like a mouse in my hand and it’s a very bad mouse. And that was the problem.

They were leveraging these older mental models they had based on their experiences of a computer mouse in the workplace. Whereas younger people were coming in and with less experience with the computer mouse and also more experience with iPod click wheels and joysticks and other input devices. And so they had a little less friction there. So we were able to recommend some changes to BMW that they were able to make in terms of producing a certain escape, putting an escape button on the different menus and things like that. And data, you know, that system remains in different forms to this day. And I mean, now it’s going to be a touch screen.

But it just goes to show you how these mental models are something if you’re designing for designing something for older people, you need to think about that wealth and mental models. Now that was a case where mental models were sort of getting in the way. But the flip side of call them outdated mental models, the flip side of that is something we call experience, which is saying you’ve been through something, you’ve been through these situations before. You might have a deeper knowledge of what’s going to happen and you might be that might be really helpful in in certain situations. So Greg, we didn’t talk about this before, but there’s this great example from not humans, but elephants, who also live a really long time.

Khost: Right.

Loquinto: 1993 Tanzania, there’s this major drought, right? And there’s these different clans of elephants who are led by the oldest female elephant in the clan that’s called the matriarch.
The clans that survived the drought best were the ones who had the matriarchs old enough to remember the previous major drought, which was in 1960, because they remember where to go when the water was scarce.
So that’s, and that’s how I think about experience that long, long memory in the context of a family, organization, institution that comes in handy when you least expect it. It’s terrific.

Khost: I love those examples. And so, while we’re on the technology topic a little bit let’s move on to the next question, which is I think my favorite one I’ve been looking forward to asking you, is your brain on artificial intelligence? Is AI going to make us smarter or is it going to stop us from thinking? And I think about your work in grasp and, and some of the things that you talk about that learning involves A struggle and effort and retrieval. What does that mean when we get the answer just pop right in front of us by going into Gemini or ChatGPT. So, would love to hear your thoughts about artificial intelligence.

Loquinto: So this is where we zoom out kind of from the from the neural level to the psychological level. So in the cognitive psychology literature, this is really important work around different type of different types of retrieval. So take an example from let’s say you’re at a cocktail party, right? You’re, you’re walking around, you don’t know these people that well. And you meet, you meet somebody, his name is Jim. Hi, Jim. And then you walk away and immediately, if you’re anything like me, I admittedly, I had a big problem with this. Like it is gone, right? That name is gone. And So what you can do in that moment is you can say Jim, Jim, Jim, Jim, Jim, Jim, Jim, Jim, Jim a bunch of times for yourself to try to remember it. And maybe it’ll work for the next 30 minutes if you’re lucky. But alternatively, if you walk away, go do something else for a while and then I think effortfully around what that name was, you may be able to pull that up and recall it at that point. That’s going to strengthen that connection a lot more than just repeating it in the moment. And so the reason why is this hypothesized and well supported difference between retrieval strength and storage strength and memories.

So you can sort of have a difference between retrievable strength and storage strength.You can sort of have a quadrant or 4 quadrant square, like a memory with no retrieval strength and no storage strength is not really memory at all. It’s just nothing. A memory with both high retrieval strength and higher storage strength is something that you know really well that you can easily access in your memory. So Greg, who was the 1st President of the United States?

Khost: George Washington.

Loquinto: You don’t even need to tell me, we all know it. That’s the strong retrieval, strong storage, right? Yeah, strong storage, but low retrieval would be something that’s on the tip of your tongue, something you know well, but you just can’t get it in that moment. And so that’s that memory is in there, but you need to be able to retrieve it. And the effort involved in retrieving that sort of strengthens that connection, that connection the next time, it’s going to be a lot easier to retrieve it once you do.

And the flip side is a high retrieval length strength, low storage strength memory, which is like the guy you just met at the cocktail party. The trick there is you need to increase the storage strength as well as the retrieval strength. And the way you do that involves this effort for retrieval again, because it’s going to strengthen that memory on both counts. So those are, you know, there are a few other examples that I won’t get into, but all together it adds up to what we call desirable difficulties. And so the brain is and memory is going to the gym. It gets a little overplayed as a metaphor, but I like it because it really does take some effort to form these, to form these youthful memories and make and make sure that they’re actually useful and not just sort of inner knowledge that you can’t you can’t leverage as easily.

And that is what I worry about in an AI world. Are we going to lose the ability to do that exercise? Are we doing a lot more exercise than we realize every day? AI is going to take that away from us. So I think just knowing about that, knowing about the different kinds of different strengths of memories, different aspects of memory, that’s going to help people think about it in your day-to-day to day lives.

Khost: Thank you, thank you. So keeping in this theme, my next question is about doing things that we’re actually bad at. And I find as you get older and sometimes as you get more successful, you, you stop doing things you’re, you’re bad at and kind of focus on the things that, that, that you’re, you’re good at. So I think about, you know, can we learn to speak Mandarin when we’re 60 years old? Can we Start learning to play the piano when we’re 70? And is that actually good? Is it good for our brains as we get older to do things that we’re not good at? So I’d love to hear your thoughts. Should successful people do things they’re bad at?

Loquinto: Yes. It’s definitely good, again, it’s good exercise for the brain, right? What I really want, if I were to write a prescription, I want you to do the learning the piano, learn Mandarin, learn paint, do it in a social setting. What I would what I really want is you to be doing this around other people because those social interactions become they can become fewer and farther between as we get older and believe it or not, just talking to people, interacting with people doing that that effort you don’t even really think about, but assessing where their brain is at, where your brain is at those that’s that’s really important mental exercise to the point where not to medicalize this too much, but social isolation is a major risk factor for dementia.

And so, not to get too deep in the weeds, but there’s, there’s even a difference between social isolation, which is the raw number of people you meet on a given day or given week versus loneliness, which is different. Actually, it’s the sense that you’re not seeing enough people. So social isolation is objective and loneliness is subjective. They’re both, they’re both bad for you. But social isolation in particular has this dementia risk sort of loneliness, but social isolation. It seems like it has more to do with the amount of brain exercises involved with being around other people, just that social aspect is really good for your brain. So I understand that nobody wants to be written as prescription to go to a go to a lunch with somebody that they’ve never met before, right.

There’s some good anecdotes in, in this book, The Longevity Economy up here behind me, that we worked on here at the AgeLab where a very well-meaning entrepreneur tried to set up a social network for people in a, in a retirement community. And they all said, yes, of course, I want to be healthy. I don’t want to be lonely. Let’s all sign up on to this local social network.  You got, they all got iPads. They all got signed up and nobody used it because it just felt too weird. It felt forced, right? And when, when it comes to social interaction, you don’t want it to feel forced. So the same entrepreneur a few years later sets up this website calledstitch.net, which is a dating website for people aged 50 plus. And she discovers that people are actually hacking it in a sense because they’re started just using it just to meet up platonically. Somehow the dating website give them social permission to meet with each other in a way that this sort of medicalized approach to avoiding social isolation didn’t pan out. So what I love about these classes, and there’s AgeLab research too, to bear this out around fitness classes, they create this social permission structure to go meet people, go see people and it’s going to be good for your body. It’s going to be good to learn something. Learning itself is very good for your brain, but that social connection is going to be huge.

Khost: Luke, thank you. So up until now, we’ve kind of been talking about ourselves and us getting older and our minds getting older. But I’d like to switch the conversation to our children and grandchildren. And, and the question is, how do we raise a lifelong learner, particularly in a high achieving family? Can you talk a little bit about that as we think about not just what we can do ourselves in, in older age, but just as we’re trying to affect people in our family to continue to, to embrace learning?

Loquinto: Yeah, absolutely. You know, when I when I think about what can happen in in a family where you have, say, an entrepreneur, who’s founded a great business or something like that. And will have learned a ton along the way. And that knowledge will have been both highly, we’ve been highly motivated to learn that because it’s been so important to their business. And B, it’s going to be highly contextualized, which means there’s, there’s knowledge that you can learn, but you can’t really apply it to anything. And then there’s some knowledge that you learned that you apply it right away to what you need to do to do the next thing to you know, in your, in your day as an entrepreneur. And I think what can be challenging for folks is you, you, you are a student all throughout your life in in effect as an entrepreneur. And everything you’ve learned is so contextualized. And then you do the right thing.

You send your kid or your grandkid to school and they learn stuff too, But they’re learning for grades, they’re learning to get an A. And this is not going to be news to anybody, but an A or an A minus is not as universally motivating as we would like it to be. You know, when I was a kid, I would love to get an A, that was like the thing that that made me get out of bed in the morning. But a lot of kids do not. So the question is. How do you motivate them and how do you make that knowledge contextualized? And I think they’re the answer to both of those is you need, you need to get that knowledge to work in the context of a project that the that the kid or even young adult cares about. So when I think about one of the things I did was I embedded in this course called course 2 007 like James Bond, it’s kind of cool, but it’s the origin course going back to the 70s of these robotics competitions. And so the course is all about learning these engineering principles, but also you put them to work in your robot that needs to solve these problems to win the robotics contest. And every year there’s big contest and like you’re in MIT Valhalla, if you win this contest and really importantly to me, you don’t get an A if you, I mean, you probably do, but you don’t necessarily get an A if you win the contest, you get an A for doing your homework and do them all on the test and all that other stuff.

But the contest is divorced from the, from the grade thing. It’s just, you just got to do it for your own sense of accomplishment. And, and these kids spend their, these students, they’re grown-ups, but they’re, they’re young adults. They spend so much time, extra time in the lab getting their robot personal because they, you know, perfect, because they care about the outcome of that contest more than they care about the grade in many cases. And to me, that’s what we need everywhere. We need to find ways to get our kids and our young adults. Did I just learn stuff, but have that have that stuff get put to work right away and something that they really care about, You know, it could be, could be an art project, could be some kind of group, group learning project. If it’s a language, maybe it’s a trip somewhere, but it’s a place where you don’t just learn stuff for a grade anymore. You’re learning it because you really want to put that knowledge to work.

And so it’s actually coming up right now because there’s a little bit of a, if you, if you read between the lines, a little bit of an argument happening between MIT and Harvard right now. And just cards on the table. I’m, you know, I work at MIT and I’m MIT all the way on this one. But Harvard has recently capped the number of As you can get in these classes they’re giving. There’s this issue with grade inflation, which is a real issue. The incentives that it sets up is that you are just going, if you’re a student, the incentives are just use AI to the hilt to turn in your homework.

And the problem is maybe you’re not learning as much along the way if you just relying on AI. And in fact, maybe you feel like you have to use AI in ways that you otherwise wouldn’t have, to get these A’s, which are limited. And meanwhile, MIT just released this big white paper on AI and education. And the point of that white paper was, among other things, was that we really need to focus on this project-based learning where you have to learn it yourself in order to make it work in the context we can, whether it’s a robot or a movie that you’re producing or a piece of art, something where you have to put this knowledge to work.

And so I think the challenge for families is going to be how do I make sure my, my younger student is getting the opportunities not just to learn something for an A, but to learn it because they really want to make something happen in the world.

Khost: Thank you, That’s terrific. I love that. And by the way, just in my mind, as you’re speaking, creating and battling robots is what I expected MIT to look like every day. If you’re just to walk around, that would be in every room. So let’s wrap up with the last question here around kind of the science of, of curiosity and, and this idea about why some people, it seems, never stop learning. And you see folks who are CEOs of companies and you know, running into their 80s. And I’m, I’m just curious, is that something we can cultivate? Can you talk a little bit about curiosity and, and the science about it as you’ve researched it?

Loquinto: Yeah, curiosity is such a fascinating thing. So curiosity is a brain state and the best analog is probably hunger, where in fact a lot of the same things in terms of the reward chemicals and circuits in the brain are being activated. But instead of the thing that lights up the reward, instead of it being food, it’s information. So the question is always what decides what information is going to make you curious and satiate your curiosity?

To make things even a little more complicated, there’s two different kinds of curiosity. There’s what’s called trade curiosity and state curiosity. And trade curiosity is basically how curious of a person you are just kind of as a personality, as a personality trait. State curiosity is how many moments of these of these highly curious moments are you going to have, you know, throughout your day, throughout your week. And the thing about state curiosity is it’s a brain state where not only are you hung hungry for that information, but your memory is much stickier in that moment. So stuff that you learn well in a curious state, you’re highly ready to learn. And that’s the information that you learn in that moment is going to stick around in your memory for longer. It’s going to be more available at your fingertips as well. So even happens as we age trait curiosity, sort of the client where you sort of have these naturally curious people that declines a little bit. Well, state curiosity can potentially increase in potency.

And so the thinking around this, to summarize these papers, is that as you get closer to the end of your life, you’re going to devote a little less of your cognitive resources towards learning new things and a little more focusing on other things you really care about. It makes sense. And curiosity is an investment. It’s a highly resource intensive investment in terms of the cognitive resources, right.
So it makes a certain amount of sense and it rhymes with something.

This is a mouthful, but it’s called socioemotional selectivity theory, which comes out of Laura Carstensen’s work at Stanford. But the basic idea there is that as, and this is widely well known, typically, over the course of our lives, we have a wider group of friends and people in our lives who we interact with. And that group becomes more, more winnowed down as we move through our life until we’re really focusing on spending time with the people who we really care about the most.
And it has to do with the amount of time we have left or the amount of time we perceive we have left. So it’s not even to do with age so much as that remaining time. It’s actually really tragic, but she did some research with people with AIDS in the 90s, and you see the same effect even in young men who perceive that they didn’t have much time left.

So the idea is we’re sort of spreading a wide net socially in our sort of teens, 20s and early 30s. And then having identified the people who want to spend time with, we really invest in those people.
The same idea may apply with curiosity in general. We’re just bringing a wide net earlier. And then we focus.

I often also think about our tree of knowledge that we’ve developed over the course of our lives and how learning new things involves modifying that tree, that tree of knowledge. So you’re less and the tree is bigger and bigger. So maybe over the course of your life, you’re less likely to find stuff that really challenges what you already know and is plausible as something that challenges what you already know. But when you do, it makes you curiosity light up. You get, you’re like, well, this is really surprising to me. I got to know more and then you’re diving in real deep. So those moments are really, really interesting to think about in terms of curiosity.

The other thing is, you’re back to learning Mandarin or learning the piano. You build a new branch on your tree of knowledge, right? And all of a sudden that that early process that you were going through when you were younger becomes live in that branch. So you, you build a new branch and all of a sudden you’re curious about all the different things about that new topic. Doesn’t need to be a hobby. Could be something at work, even some new, some new process that you’re involved in at work or some new team that you’re involved in at work. But you know, it could be a hobby too.
But I think that to just to back up and summarize it into one sentence, I would say curiosity.
As you can get older, it becomes less about casting a wide net, but you’re still fishing, you’re spear fishing for that thing to get curious about.

Khost: That’s a great analogy. I love that. Before I let you go, can we just do a little commercial for the MIT AgeLab? One of the things I love about your website, as you publish a lot of articles and content up there, it’s always interesting to read.But you also do some surveys and you have volunteers who can answer questions on the surveys. And if you do, you get a copy of the survey back, which is interesting to me. And I think you have two different age classifications. Could you just talk about that if folks are interested in the topics you talked about today and kind of want to continue learning about it?

Loquinto: What we do is we ask people questions. That’s a lot of what we do. And we need people to ask questions to. And you know, especially in this sort of AI moment, you can’t just throw surveys out on the Internet and expect you’re going to get genuine answers back. You need to you need to create these panels of people who we know are real people and who are going to answer our questions in in good faith.
And so we have a few different ones. We have a general volunteer database and Greg, maybe you can, you can send out the link to it with as you send this out where sort of anyone can join.

Volunteer for a Study | MIT AgeLab

We have, I actually didn’t even mention this last time, but we have something called the care hive, which is a database of family caregivers and volunteer caregivers talk about their experience and we ask them a lot of questions. And we have a very special group which is, which is pretty unique. It’s called their 85 plus lifestyle leaders, which is folks over the age of 85. And we asked them all kinds of questions about all different topics. You know, it could, you know, ranges from sort of funny stuff that we had MIT students who designed a new oven and we wanted to get their thoughts on this out and, and they, they do not hold back, But we talked about, we talked about stuff from from retirement progress. We talked about death. We talked about, you know, it ranges from heavy to light, but it’s we really get into it and the folks in that panel really enjoy it as it’s a social, social occasion for them too. So we do it on Zoom now. So you can live anywhere, anywhere essentially. And we we’d love to have folks who are 85 + up.

Khost: Terrific, Luke, thank you. This has been a fascinating conversation. It’s great as always to talk with you. Thanks for thanks for chatting this afternoon.

Loquinto: Thanks very much, Greg. I really appreciate the opportunity and thanks again.

Khost: This has been a fascinating conversation. My takeaway from today it’s that our capacity to learn isn’t something we leave behind when we finish school. It’s something we can continue to develop throughout our lives. And perhaps that’s particularly important right now. We’re living longer, technology is changing faster, and many of us are thinking not only about our own next chapter, but we’re thinking about how our children and our grandchildren will navigate a very different world.

So I’d leave everyone with three questions.

#1: What are you curious about right now

#2: What are you willing to be a beginner at again?

#3: And perhaps most importantly, what do you want the next generation of your family to learn, and not just to inherit?

That last question really gets to something we think about a great deal at Glenmede. Our conversations with clients shouldn’t be only about the markets and portfolios and estate planning. We also want to understand what you’re trying to accomplish with your wealth, what you want to experience, what you want to teach, what you want to change and what opportunities you want to create for the people and the causes that matter to you.

So I would encourage you all to do something very simple. Bring one of these questions to your next conversation with your Glenmede advisor. Tell us something you’d like to learn or experience. Tell us something you’re thinking about for your children or your grandchildren. Tell us about an organization or a cause you’d like to become more involved with. Or maybe tell us about something you’ve always wanted to do, but you just haven’t quite figured out how to make that happen.

These conversations help us to know you better, and the better we understand what matters to you, the more useful we can be, not just in managing wealth, but in helping you think about what that wealth can make possible. One of the best things that you can do for us is introducing us to someone you think would enjoy the kinds of conversations we have here at Glenmede. Because ultimately, planning for the future isn’t simply about preserving what you’ve accumulated. It’s about deciding what you want to do with the possibilities that it creates.

Luke, thank you again for joining us.